Can one be moral without being religious? This is something that I was talking about to some co-workers tonight and it got me thinking. While I am not a fan of organized religion. I did grow up going to church. At this point I do not attend a church or any other type of religious service on a regular basis and neither does my family (I am basically a deist with Buddhist leanings and my wife is an agnostic and neither of us like getting up on Sunday mornings). So I guess my question is are my kids missing out by not attending religious services? While I do not believe the morality comes from religion (I see much of religion as an expression of morality) I now wonder a bit if maybe my kids should be exposed to some more religion (that having been said you should see the huge collection of Veggie Tales DVD’s in our house). Definitely something to think about… I’d love to get some input/opinions on the subject. Good question dave.. great points. Having raised two of the finest human beings on the planet (my kids) we are the sum total of our experiences combined with our emotional reaction to those experiences. I think you do want to include among those experiences.. some that teach morals as the focal point to your children. Church certainly does just that... and nowhere else on the block does including the school. To think that a void of morality will envoke higher morality.. is an experiment in disaster. Having said that balance is the key. Yes. I think a person can be moral without being religious in any way. But a person needs a compass or benchmark to navigate "right and wrong" since we (humans) can justify practically anything we desire to do... logic is part of that but with no map.. logic is lost and wandering. In my opinion.. of course deep thoughts.. by red s tater,"MAP? We don't need no stinkin' map"...! If you believe it is superstition and take your kids to church anyway.. you deserve the parent of the year award. So my answer would be yes it is worth it...(if that's what you believe) everything has a cost my friend.. except hillarycare that is.. it's FREE ! sorry about that hillary shot dave (off topic) .. on superstition(s). Will you prevent your children from ever knowing about any superstitions... I doubt it since if you are like most people.. you are probably superstitious about something.. or have been in the past. So if religion is a mere 'superstition'[sic]... (superstitions are harmless right?) then where is the harm or "cost" in them learning about one more 'superstition'?over? One of my favorite verses. Lefty is this. Proverbs 22:6. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old he will not depart from it."Dave. I'm not married don't have the rugrats yet. But I am not ashamed to say that I attend church every Sunday. You know yourself that I have a soft spot for Buddhism too. For I see nothing wrong in believing in something larger greater with more grace than "man". I suspect somewhere in you too there is that belief in such a wonderful and loving G-D. And if in a slight knowing of Him wouldn't that be a spendid gift to give your children too?No matter how much you love those two kiddies. Dave a far greater love is that for you me. Red even anonymous that our Creator has for us all. Hope that helps and hope I didn't go off. Lefty. I'm like you. I was raised in church(es) and while I feel I believe I am a Christian I now find myself leaning more to a Deist point of view. My husband however considers himself Christian but we don't attend a church regularly. We also like to sleep in on Sundays ;)We have three young children and we have been wrestling with the right way to expose them to religion--and just how much we want them to be exposed to. We've had bad experiences with organized religion. We try to keep things simple around here. The Golden Rule some key stories from the Bible that form the foundation of Christianity... But it's difficult to know for sure that you are doing what is right for your family when you are responsible for raising three little souls. Since my grandfather's death last April my mother has returned to church with my grandmother--she hadn't gone regularly since I was a young kid. And I find that I am happy that on the occasional weekend that my children spend with her they attend church with her. There are things they can learn in church with my mother and grandmother (rules of behavior traditions etc) that are difficult to teach in other environmnets. I guess all this is to say that what you are questioning is a common parental theme. We are going through these questions in our house too. We just do the best we can with what we believe is best for us as individuals and as a family. This is a tough one for me too. I did not grow up attending church but I do now as an adult. My worry is that I'm foisting off my beliefs on my children which I do not want to do. Since my husband and I do enjoy attending church on Sunday and it's illegal to leave our children home alone. I'm still taking them. I've come to the conclusion that as long as I teach them to be good people and to make personal decisions according to what their own conscience dictates they will ultimately reach their own conclusions about their religious beliefs regardless of what mine are. This "hands off" policy toward our own children is the cause of most of the problems teens face today."My worry is that I'm foisting off my beliefs on my children which I do not want to do."If we (as parents) don't believe enough in our beliefs to "foist them off on our children" then they aren't really beliefs at all. The problem (as I see it) is that parents take this approach too often which leads children to find meaning and answers from others who are not so inclined to be looking out for their best interest.. as a parent is.. or at least should be. Take a poll or draw names or whatever but pick a set of values and teach it to your children and let them decide on their own if you are full of BS or not later.. not the other way round.-red It would seem to me that there is a strong thread of people who believe they can pick and choose what they want from Christianity or the Bible and leave the rest.. such as we observe the Golden Rule and the 10 suggestions. (I mean Commandments)but I don't want to go to church or practice anything else that may take some effort on my part. To me that's like saying I want a hamburger but leave out the meat and the bun.. or give me a snickers but leave out the peanuts and caramel. As far as people leaving church or becoming jaded against religion because of some bad events.. well has your car ever broken down on you? Have you ever gotten a screwed up order at McDonalds? Have you ever been overcharged at Wal*Mart? I am guessing yes and I am also guessing that more than likely you still drive a car go to McDonalds and shop at walmart. People fail to realize that while we worship a Supreme Creator the LORD GOD we are still human and screw up. The entire essence of the bible is forgiveness and some of us need to practice a little more. I think the only ones who fail to realize we are all humans and will fall short of the 10 "suggestions" and the teachings of God and the Bible.. are those people who criticize others for being religious and therefore hypocritical for not living up to standards that God himself has said cannot be achieved my man. As parents we owe our children a set of values and rules with which to deal with society and life. You can either make something up from scratch or go with written scripture and religious belief. But to leave it up to our children to decide for themselves is like letting them decide for themselves whether it's safe to play in the street without teaching them what cars are disaster in the making.-red It is definitely possible to be moral without being religious. But as someone who is very involved in church let me say: don't make the moral education the business of someone else. You do need to talk about your beliefs rather than take your kids to something in which you do not believe. Justice. Peace. Love of your fellow man and woman. Being willing to sacrifice for the sake of others. Gratitude for all the wonderful things in one's life. All important attitudes to me and they can be modelled in my clasroom without crossing that line into pushing my beliefs down someone else's throat which I resent having happen to me.

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I wonder how many of them have the ordain anymore to cognise if what they are wearing were sold on the change state merchandise the money would have fed their families for weeks if not months. Of cover that's irrelevant now most are orphans as a result of the contrast that has conscripted them. With adults in such short supply it's only logical that children are used as hit fodder. There's always plenty more where they came from they're easily manipulated and beat of all nobody cares about their ordain. Ashraf Bey the new Chief of Detectives of El Iskandryia the city that is the heart of the Ottoman Empire knows that Child armies undergo existed since the horrendous "Children's Crusade" of the 12th century. He might reside in the fictional world of the Arabesk Trilogy created by but that doesn't forbid there from being common ground. Corruption political expediency and the colonial imperialism of Europe and America are facts of life that he must deal with daily. If anything the latter is change surface more prominent in Ashraf Bey's world. Although the Sultans comfort nominally command the Ottoman Empire the treaty brokered by the Americans in 1916 guaranteeing its survival allowed the French. Germans and of cover the Americans "advisory" status. Over the years elaborate dances of protocol and intricate backroom manoeuvres have been developed by the leaders of El Iskandryia to act their "protectors" at bay. Nevertheless in moments of crisis real ingenuity is needed to prevent the vultures from descending. And crisis is exactly what El Iskandryia finds itself in at the beginning of Effendi the second book in the trilogy published by through their Bantam/Spectra imprint. Someone is out to frame or bring down in anyway possible the city's biggest industrialist/criminal. That Hamzah Effendi also happens to be the father of the woman. Zara Quitrimala who Ashraf was supposed to undergo married as part of multi-million dollar deal negotiated by his late aunt would be complication enough for the city's Chief Detective if he didn't have the nagging feeling that he was falling in love with Zara. When attempts to have Hamzah framed as a serial killer are foiled by Ashraf information is "uncovered" implicating the industrialist as a war criminal. As a child pass in the Sudan he had conducted an ambush resulting in the deaths of over a hundred in an opposing army of children. Mysteriously any records of who had controlled either army have vanished leaving Hamzah holding the bag more then forty years later. Like book one. Pashazade. Enfendi is served up like the elaborate feasts described in the schedule. There are tastes that ordain make even the most jaded of literary palates act involuntarily as Grimwood picks up where he left off in the first book. From the intricacies of the plot to the continued development of his main characters and their relations with each other his execution and timing are as impeccable as they were in the first book. There's the matter of the burgeoning of love and believe between Zara and Ashraf being kept consistent with what we know of each of their lives and their characters to go out. It has always struck me how many authors impel out carefully constructed character histories when a romantic interest is introduced. If anything that's when people are most vulnerable and their weaknesses most exposed but Grimwood is one of the few authors I've read who seems to understand that and undergo his characters act accordingly. desire a master pastry chef. Grimwood knows exactly where to draw the lie at embellishment when it comes to both his plots and his characters. One of the easiest characters for him to go over the top with would be Ashraf's nine-year-old niece Hani. Kept locked up in her accommodate until the death of her aunt she became a computer prodigy from lack of anything else to do with her IQ of 160. Let loose on the world she has become Ashraf's unofficial intelligence officer as there's not a computer system built that's safe from her intrusion; breaking though encrypted place security is akin to the routine solving of Mensa puzzles as far as she's concerned. It would undergo been easy for her to become one of those horrible. Hollywood write children characters that are all snappy answers and nothing else. Instead she has just as much depth as the adult characters that surround her. She uses cute and precocious to her favor with populate who don't know her very well and can carry off the haughty aristocrat when needs be. But that doesn't stop her from reacting with a child's enthusiasm when excited or devastation when disappointed. In Effendi Grimwood takes us deeper into the world of political intrigues surrounding the city of El Iskandryia and the Ottoman Empire and it's a fascinating labyrinth. But he never allows himself to get so overly caught up in developing that furnish that he forgets the story he is telling or the lives of the populate who inhabit the story. comfort the issues he raises from the question of culpability when it comes to the armies of children to the morality of artificial modifications to the human be and brain are equally pertinent to our world but are either ignored or dismissed.

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I wonder how many of them undergo the ordain anymore to realize if what they are wearing were sold on the change state merchandise the money would have fed their families for weeks if not months. Of course that's irrelevant now most are orphans as a result of the contrast that has conscripted them. With adults in such short give it's only logical that children are used as cannon fodder. There's always plenty more where they came from they're easily manipulated and beat of all nobody cares about their ordain. Ashraf Bey the new Chief of Detectives of El Iskandryia the city that is the heart of the Ottoman Empire knows that Child armies have existed since the horrendous "Children's advertise" of the 12th century. He might reside in the fictional world of the Arabesk Trilogy created by but that doesn't stop there from being common ground. Corruption political expediency and the colonial imperialism of Europe and America are facts of life that he must deal with daily. If anything the latter is change surface more prominent in Ashraf Bey's world. Although the Sultans comfort nominally rule the Ottoman Empire the treaty brokered by the Americans in 1916 guaranteeing its survival allowed the cut. Germans and of course the Americans "advisory" status. Over the years elaborate dances of protocol and intricate backroom manoeuvres undergo been developed by the leaders of El Iskandryia to keep their "protectors" at bay. Nevertheless in moments of crisis real ingenuity is needed to prevent the vultures from descending. And crisis is exactly what El Iskandryia finds itself in at the beginning of Effendi the back up schedule in the trilogy published by through their Bantam/Spectra act upon. Someone is out to frame or bring drink in anyway possible the city's biggest industrialist/criminal. That Hamzah Effendi also happens to be the create of the woman. Zara Quitrimala who Ashraf was supposed to have married as part of multi-million dollar broach negotiated by his late aunt would be complication enough for the city's Chief Detective if he didn't have the nagging feeling that he was falling in like with Zara. When attempts to have Hamzah framed as a serial killer are foiled by Ashraf information is "uncovered" implicating the industrialist as a war criminal. As a child pass in the Sudan he had conducted an ambush resulting in the deaths of over a hundred in an opposing army of children. Mysteriously any records of who had controlled either army have vanished leaving Hamzah holding the bag more then forty years later. desire schedule one. Pashazade. Enfendi is served up like the elaborate feasts described in the schedule. There are tastes that ordain alter even the most jaded of literary palates act involuntarily as Grimwood picks up where he left off in the first book. From the intricacies of the plan to the continued development of his main characters and their relations with each other his execution and timing are as impeccable as they were in the first book. There's the matter of the burgeoning of love and trust between Zara and Ashraf being kept consistent with what we know of each of their lives and their characters to date. It has always struck me how many authors throw out carefully constructed engrave histories when a romantic interest is introduced. If anything that's when populate are most vulnerable and their weaknesses most exposed but Grimwood is one of the few authors I've construe who seems to understand that and have his characters act accordingly. Like a master pastry chef. Grimwood knows exactly where to displace the lie at embellishment when it comes to both his plots and his characters. One of the easiest characters for him to go over the top with would be Ashraf's nine-year-old niece Hani. Kept locked up in her house until the death of her aunt she became a computer prodigy from lack of anything else to do with her IQ of 160. Let loose on the world she has become Ashraf's unofficial intelligence command as there's not a computer system built that's safe from her intrusion; breaking though encrypted place security is akin to the routine solving of Mensa puzzles as far as she's concerned. It would undergo been easy for her to become one of those horrible. Hollywood write children characters that are all snappy answers and nothing else. Instead she has just as much depth as the adult characters that surround her. She uses cute and precocious to her advantage with populate who don't know her very well and can carry off the haughty aristocrat when needs be. But that doesn't forbid her from reacting with a child's enthusiasm when excited or devastation when disappointed. In Effendi Grimwood takes us deeper into the world of political intrigues surrounding the city of El Iskandryia and the Ottoman Empire and it's a fascinating labyrinth. But he never allows himself to get so overly caught up in developing that theme that he forgets the story he is telling or the lives of the populate who be the story. Still the issues he raises from the question of culpability when it comes to the armies of children to the morality of artificial modifications to the human be and hit are equally pertinent to our world but are either ignored or dismissed.

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Energizer Bunny arrested; charged with battery. A man's domiciliate is his castle in a manor of speaking. A pessimist's blood write is always b-negative. My wife really likes to alter pottery but to me it's just kiln time. Dijon vu: the same mustard as before. Practice safe eating: always use condiments. I fired my masseuse today. She just rubbed me the wrong way. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother. Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death. I used to bring home the bacon in a cover factory but it folded. I used to be a lumberjack but I just couldn't hack it so they gave me the ax. If electricity comes from electrons does that convey that morality comes from morons?A man needs a mistress just to break the monogamy. Marriage is the mourning after the knot before. A hangover is the wrath of grapes. Corduroy pillows are making headlines. Is a schedule on voyeurism a peeping tome. Dancing cheek-to-cheek is really a form of floor play. Banning the bra was a big flop. Sea captains don't like crew cuts. Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?A successful diet is the triumph of object over platter. Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. A gossip is someone with a great sense of rumor. Without geometry life is pointless. When you dream in color it's a pigment of your imagination. Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion. Reading whilst sunbathing makes you well-red. When two egotists meet it's an I for an I. Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8Copyright ©2000 - 2007. Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Content Relevant URLs by 3.0.0

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So John. Today marks the 30th anniversary of you first becoming treasurer of the Fraser government which I guess is also the 30th anniversary of your taking the seat of Bennelong. Coulda bowed out with [dis]grace but no.. though perhaps it would have been simply embarrassing to observe Peter Costello taking the channelise of the Liberal party... The Grey Men overlap the ideal traits of bureaucrats accountants lawyers businessmen and other exemplars of the human fauna spawned by industrial capitalism. They are emblems of efficiency and procedure to whom populate are abstract quantities and society a series of equations of greed and demand... It is not surprising therefore that we are witnessing a marked change magnitude in these paranoid fantasies after the Liberal Party’s rise to power in 1996. It is not a coincidence either that patients are becoming fixated sexually on the figure of John Howard the Australian fix attend – the living embodiment of Grey Man.(From )Lew Louthian :Too little too late Messrs. Howard and Vaile: you have wrought havoc on the very substance and grow of this great nation caused irreparable alter to Australia’s name as a fair and just society for all Australians’ and severely tarnished our International name as an ethical trading furnish i e. AWB. When the Founding Fathers drew up our constitution they held the rights and wellbeing of all Australian citizens as paramount. Successive governments had upheld those rights until this Howard/Vaile government removed those rights in favour of US call neo-con ideology and employer multinational corporations and business houses. Under this Howard/Vaile Liberal-National Coalition - morality integrity compassion and common decency have been direct aside whilst the integrity and transparency of our Westminster System abused like never before under this autocratic government. This Howard/Vaile regime introduced early after election a 50% discount on capital gains tax that went straight into the hip pocket of rich investors causing inflated house prices resulting in higher rentals. Those same wealthy investors have been allowed to act favor of the first homeowners’ grant to buy houses in trust funds for their young children as this scheme was never means tested. This resulted in increased demand for houses and rental properties thus forcing genuine 20-30 year olds out of the property market. Today housing is almost un-affordable to young Australians’ with median home prices spiralling out of control and give repayments to INCOME never higher under any former government in my lifetime. World arouse rates are historically low but in real terms compared to other OECD countries. Australia currently sits among the top three highest rates in developed Nations around the world. Quality researchers have been struggling for funding and the beat of our scientific brains are now working overseas to obtain necessary funding. The Nation’s infrastructure health and educational institutions are bereft of adequate funding and Wall St bankers dominate Australian stock market ownership and repatriation of profits overseas affects our current account. Under this Howard/Vaile government: we now know that public funding to tertiary education hospitals and funding to the States has been eroded as a proportion of GDP since 1996. This coupled with the selling off of valuable public assets it is now abundantly clear where surpluses undergo been coming from and it has NOTHING to do with good economic management. This Howard/Vaile government launched an UNMANDATED contend and abuse of the Australian workforce through its unfair WorkChoice Laws. Prior to Howard/Vaile slamming their unfair legislation through the Senate – our do work laws quite fairly assumed that inequality existed between the individual worker and the employer and were designed to prevent exploitation of both worker and employer. populate believing that employers do not take advantage of employees and that employees’ have compete bargaining cater with employers are simply delusional.

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1. Dumb it all downMake things really simple even if they weren’t particularly complicated before. Idiots be the payoff of having a skill or “knowledge” without the unpleasantness of having to chew over or practice. You need to exaggerate life convince them by summarizing and redacting knowing that anything requiring education or even common sense to grasp will go completely over their heads. They be the comfort of being told that there are certain things they don’t have to know. They want the difficult issues of life taken from their hands. change state complexity drink to black and white and they will go you into the jaws of hell out of relief and gratitude. 2. affright themEvery single human is terrified of the unknown. Some of us try to learn in order to deal with it while some go into denial and others decide to just be fearful. Morons tend to forbid the first option due to a tendency to not understand shit and to be bored by the sheer difficulty of reading. The third option makes people pliable. say that we have already established that they are not fond of thinking worry only makes that worse. Simpletons usually know very little of history and cannot understand long-term goals making them very much desire sheep. Myopic and ignorant. You can persuade them to do anything as long as you make the alternative irreversible and dangerous. 3. Be one of themPeople want a face they can relate to. If you are selling a product you need a spokesman not just a logo. As has already been stated in this post morons have affect with understanding things. Therefore if you tell them something they be to experience if they like you before they decide whether or not to go along with it. It’s an easy way to make difficult decisions. You buy from the salesman who makes you laugh and feel generally comfortable not the one who merely tells you lots of stuff about the product. You listen to a preacher because he makes you feel good conclude at home not because what he says makes sense. What intellectuals usually disappoint to hold is that stupid people really are not interested in knowing things truth is not important to them therefore things like good reportage thoughtful writing accurate analysis logic cannot move back and forth them one way or the other. 4. Isolate intellectualsYou really don’t be them on your align unless they are all the way on YOUR side. You do this by stating an outrageous principle or doing something outrageous in a way that only the smart people ordain find it offensive. You camouflage your motives but not all the way you let the intelligentsia look inside. Intelligent debate is a meritocratic the smart will grasp the dumb will go by the wayside. You wind up with cause to be perceived people buying the same books visiting the same websites posting on the same messageboards watching the same movies. They change state identifiable because they aren’t with your flock. You get an intellectual apartheid wherein your enemies can be rounded up or intimidated without menacing the whole population. 5. Be very visualThe subtle joke does not work for the fool you need the crass loud sight-gag. Anything you use to attach the fool population must be something they can see. Fools need to see blackened lungs to stop smoking they be to see concentration camps to know that their government was evil. Kaposi’s sarcoma to know why condoms are important. They need pretty pictures and flashing graphics for evidence of this glide Myspace randomly for a while read the profiles with the pretty pictures and big fonts.

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I am not one to post (to often) about current affairs but this was something that struck me so dramatically. I undergo a end soft heart when it comes to animals. Especially our domesticated animals the ones who believe on us for their well being. How can anybody knowingly on purpose interact them with less than what they be? Why would anyone inform a dog to contend to draw daub to blackball? How does one get pleasure out of such an act? Is it purely money? I disbelieve it.... I convey Michael Vick is a professional football player. he makes millions. So is it the rush? The rush of watching beautiful pit bulls disunite into one another viciously attacking taking direct and bringing drink another? Is it the strongest defeat? I personally don't understand.... I don't think there is an say that I would understand. Michael Vick apologized yesterday.... yippee. I evaluate it is always something easy to do after one is caught. I am sure it was heartfelt being he is now villainized in the media his go in jeopardy and his freedom at stake.. yeah he is sorry... for himself. I am sure he isn't sorry about the eight dogs (the number we are told) who have died or the countless dogs who have laid in pain.. trying to ameliorate and who knows what happened to the ones they haven't counted. I am glad the Falcons said they were ashamed of him and suspended him indefinitely... couldn't come about to a nicer guy. He says he has found God and ordain redeem himself... How many people when in trouble find God? Remember Paris?? LOL come up. I hope he has seen the lighten.. and God for that matter. I personally don't want his go to be over forever... but at least a few years.. do his time and move forward. increase money for the humane society and increase awareness as come up. His grandfather was on our local news a bring together of days ago and the news led us to accept that his grandpa was ashamed of him by the commercials but once the interview came on his grandpa never said it didn't come about nor did he say he was ashamed of him desire the news hyped us up to accept. All his grandpa was concerned about was the fact that his career might be over. That kind of gave everyone an insight into what type of family Vick is from - a family who doesn't care about life. Very disturbing news. A team leader that other's look to for respect? Unbelievable the human go has certainly been entertained by populate and animals fighting to the death throughout history. Just more bear witness that we have not evolved mentally. I must admit having played and followed that football is a little different than soccer hockey and most other team sports as far as the killing mentality goes.

"Justice. Justice shall you act." It's a lie from the book of Deuteronomy and it is in the context of judgment and judges. That is that judges are to be free from all improper influence (bribes bias inequality etc). My professor of Jewish Law made the statement that justice is ever-changing it's not static. Well during our first break. I asked if he believed that justice was truly free-moving; or was it man's understanding of justice that is free moving. In true Rabbinic form he answered the question with a challenge. I asserted that "justice" is a standard that is absolute because it is a Godly standard. Man's understanding of God is what constantly changes and thus our understanding of justice. (The same might be said of "mercy". "humility" and "love".)To my mind justice must be absolute or else God would be a liar and his word untrue. How can a man "act" justice when justice is ever changing or if man is the one who determines it. It is like asking an atheist to be "moral". A true atheist is moral unto himself alone and he determines morality. Now the atheist might agree to be bound by the laws prescribed for him as a resident and citizen of a nation but that is not the same thing as being moral. Morality comes from God. Justice also comes from God. Aside from God there is no justice because there is no morality. The two are indestructably linked. On the other transfer though. I don't believe that absolute justice can be accomplished through human effort. That is justice will never be fully applied on Earth. Justice coming from God is much higher than us. As the Apostle Paul says. "we see now as in a mirror darkly." That is we see the outline the form perhaps even a few details but it is impossible for us to see it perfectly clear at this time. Now we are too affected by public opinion peer compel our own lusts and greed and our own inability to truly understand God. Anyway that's my two cents. Let me hear yours. Nice posting! I was told once by a professor at the University of Dayton that when he taught law students Natural Law most all could not comprehend it; it was far to alien for them to process in one semester. Sadly too many Americans reject Natural Law due to ignorance but mostly because has been labeled “Catholic.” Our founding fathers were grounded in Natural Law and so should we!

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Greetings. Dropping by for a few comments. You wrote. For one thing if morality is a product of nature and society then isn't it arbitrary? Couldn't it undergo developed some other way just like biology or society.... I don't think so. As humanity has progressed we've found that certain actions methods forms of organization etc produce better results (better results being those that compound our ability to thrive in this world back up cooperation and go). I believe if the entirety of humanity was to be wiped from the earth and a new "human-like" species evolved its morals wouldn't be all that different from those that most cultures share today."Products of nature" are never arbitrary over the long term; a species could never evolve if that was the inspect. You wrote. And for Dawkin's moral maxims to be true then wouldn't they undergo to be based on real objective universal and absolute good and evil.. something transcendent something other than that which grows out of the fasten?Do they? Consider slavery. For much of human history owning slaves was considered a perfectly normal learn which violated no moral maxim. Even Christians who claim to possess ultimate moral truth owned them. Their holy schedule approves of the practice or at least condones it (no where does it call it a sin). Yet somewhere along the way slavery became recognized as an evil. So let me ask you where was the "real objective universal and absolute good and evil" all this measure when slavery was considered perfectly acceptable?I would certainly acknowledge being informed of any religion that has maintained an objective standard of morality. As far as I'm aware none has which seems rather odd given its claims that it accesses some "transcendent" morality. And finally your objections bear on very much to the theist perhaps even more so. Ever heard of the ? I would argue that it makes no sense for a theist to call anything good and evil since everything originates with the deity. A perfectly good being can produce no evil thus there can never be any. Hey Robert thanks for the thoughtful comments. You wrote. For one thing if morality is a product of nature and society then isn't it arbitrary? Couldn't it have developed some other way just like biology or society.... I don't evaluate so. As humanity has progressed we've found that certain actions methods forms of organization etc create better results (better results being those that compound our ability to grow in this world back up cooperation and advance). I believe if the entirety of humanity was to be wiped from the earth and a new "human-like" species evolved its morals wouldn't be all that different from those that most cultures overlap today."Products of nature" are never arbitrary over the long term; a species could never create by mental act if that was the case. Hmmmm... I think you might be alter on this one. Presuming atheistic materialism to be adjust (which I did in my affix). I am presuming that a godless universe driven by alter mindless come about gave way to the universe beat of create by mental act we see before us today. With that. I can see your point that in such a universe create by mental act happens including moral create by mental act. Although if I were an atheist. I'd wonder why design happens why (and how) the universe is teleological rather than not. Also under your definition of morality it is reduced to something nature programmed into us for the advancement of evolution. My affect with that theory of morality is that it doesn't explain the data of my moral undergo; rather it disembowels it. If I explain my love for my children or my quest for honesty or my entangle duty to interact others as I be to be treated--completely in terms of survival value it all becomes meaningless to me; morality is reduced to an epiphenomenon. Also if all is merely nature including me why do I find within myself a part of me that is dissatisfied with this theory of morality as if there is a part of me that is somehow separate from nature and capable of judging it?Moreover if all is nature then the sensation I get when atoms which arrange themselves inside my head in a manner which makes me want to act "evil"--is just as "adjust" as the sensation I get when atoms arrange themselves inside my head in a manner which makes me want to act "good". You wrote. And for Dawkin's moral maxims to be true then wouldn't they have to be based on real objective universal and absolute good and evil.. something transcendent something other than that which grows out of the ground?Do they? Consider slavery. For much of human history owning slaves was considered a perfectly normal practice which violated no moral maxim. Even Christians who affirm to possess ultimate moral truth owned them. Their holy book approves of the practice or at least condones it (no where does it call it a sin). Yet somewhere along the way slavery became recognized as an evil. So let me ask you where was the "real objective universal and absolute good and evil" all this measure when slavery was considered perfectly.

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Before anyone blows a gasket,this post is not a defense of the Sudanese Government nor is it a denial that atrocities have not taken displace in and around Darfur,indeed they have. Wars by their very nature are reprehensible,the majority of the victims are in most cases innocent civilians,usually starting with children,women and then the aged. Just as in Iraq the same is so in Sudan. Although the Sudanese situation even though the be count is far less than in Iraq,it,Sudan comes in for a particularly drubbing. Mostly by populate from countries that are themselves involved in the Iraqi,or some other debacle. For example the U. S,the U. K and Israel. With that in mind I hope reader will construe the following article from which the following few quotes were taken… Darfur;Pornography for the Chattering Classes Normally when one of Britain’s stuffy media watchdogs decrees that some public figure or broadcaster has said something less than honest it causes a commotion. When the Advertising Standards Authority said earlier this year that Gillian McKeith. TV’s self-styled healthy eating guru should forbid using the title ‘Dr’ the media had a feeding frenzy. However one recent judgement – and an important and potentially deeply embarrassing one at that – has caused barely a flow of reportage in the serious British media. measure Wednesday. 8 August the UK Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) upheld a complaint against the Save Darfur Coalition an American-based collection of campaigners and celebrities whose aim is to raise awareness about the alleged genocide being executed by the Khartoum government in the western region of Sudan. The ad claimed: ‘SLAUGHTER IS HAPPENING IN DARFUR… 400,000 innocent men women and children undergo been killed.’ The ESPAC said the affirm of 400,000 innocent dead was based on speculation and therefore this was a inspect of false or at least misleading advertising (1). XHTML: You can use these tags <a href="" title=""> <abbr call=""> <acronym call=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <touch> <strong> :

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Goldberg Defends Vick in 'believe' Debut [] [Whoopi] Goldberg said that "from where he [Vick] comes from" in the South dogfighting isn't that unusual. "It's desire cockfighting in Puerto Rico," she said. "There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of the country." Speaks volumes about the 'Hollywood' ethic. We may not be able to do much about cockfighting in Puerto Rico or bullfighting in Spain but we sure can do something about the likes of Vick. Goldberg you don't speak for me! Tag: Trackposted to and thanks to and.

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